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	<title>Comments on: I Am Not Misanthropic In My Elegiac Dismay</title>
	<link>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/</link>
	<description>n. the principle of good order "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 10:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: cyrus</title>
		<link>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5911</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5911</guid>
					<description>Daniel, it is not good that the man should be alone.  Before I retire to the backwoods, I need an help meet to raise daughters to milk the cows and card and spin wool, and sons to till the fields and man the compound's guard towers.  

Despite our computer-facilitated compatibility, we still find things over which to fight, and while we get along very well, we are hardly twins.  But enough on this.  I really have nothing to add on this thread's ostensible subject of the apparent lack of "Republican fiction,"  though I second the opinion that any conscious effort at such would be merely to reproduce the the awfulness of Socialist Realism under a veneer of the Stars and Stripes.  Flowers for Comrade Bush, anyone?  Leave that rot to leftists.  We can all sneer at their efforts, then go back to something more edifying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel, it is not good that the man should be alone.  Before I retire to the backwoods, I need an help meet to raise daughters to milk the cows and card and spin wool, and sons to till the fields and man the compound&#8217;s guard towers.  </p>
<p>Despite our computer-facilitated compatibility, we still find things over which to fight, and while we get along very well, we are hardly twins.  But enough on this.  I really have nothing to add on this thread&#8217;s ostensible subject of the apparent lack of &#8220;Republican fiction,&#8221;  though I second the opinion that any conscious effort at such would be merely to reproduce the the awfulness of Socialist Realism under a veneer of the Stars and Stripes.  Flowers for Comrade Bush, anyone?  Leave that rot to leftists.  We can all sneer at their efforts, then go back to something more edifying.
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		<title>by: Grumpy Old Man</title>
		<link>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5910</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5910</guid>
					<description>You only need to find &lt;i&gt;one&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You only need to find <i>one</i>.
</p>
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		<title>by: Roach</title>
		<link>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5909</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5909</guid>
					<description>We got off onto this tangent, incidentally, because my view of American life was kind of negative.  Someone suggested I needed to get married to find the "beauty" out there.  Daring to suggest something generally wrong with promiscuous hen-pecking American women, their widespread promiscuity, their souls damaged by feminism, their sense of entitlement, and the neurotic uncourageous men the have fashioned through years of reeducation (and whom they now find somewhat repulsive) is one of the greatest taboos in public life.  

Just this weekend the NY Times had an article about married couples seeking separate bedrooms.  The Atlantic a few years ago had an article entitled The Wifely Duty about how more and more couples are in sexless marriages.  This is not a normal state of affairs, and the pathetic desperate approval-seeking behavior of most American husbands has absolutely no appeal to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We got off onto this tangent, incidentally, because my view of American life was kind of negative.  Someone suggested I needed to get married to find the &#8220;beauty&#8221; out there.  Daring to suggest something generally wrong with promiscuous hen-pecking American women, their widespread promiscuity, their souls damaged by feminism, their sense of entitlement, and the neurotic uncourageous men the have fashioned through years of reeducation (and whom they now find somewhat repulsive) is one of the greatest taboos in public life.  </p>
<p>Just this weekend the NY Times had an article about married couples seeking separate bedrooms.  The Atlantic a few years ago had an article entitled The Wifely Duty about how more and more couples are in sexless marriages.  This is not a normal state of affairs, and the pathetic desperate approval-seeking behavior of most American husbands has absolutely no appeal to me.
</p>
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		<title>by: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5907</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 02:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5907</guid>
					<description>That's a fair point, Jeff.  You can find a few of these fiction writers scattered here and there, I will agree, but what I was aiming at here was to give an account why people on the right in this country don't *generally* do fiction.  There is something in American culture that militates against great fiction writing, or so I would argue, and whatever that something is conservatives seem to have it in abundance.  If I had to write the post over again, I would pay more attention to the importance Kirk and Weaver gave to imagination and rhetoric.  Especially rhetoric.  Writers have to be lovers of language and craftsmen with words, and sadly because of a mix of good old American anti-intellectualism and the radical uses of literary theory many people on the right seem to have an aversion to studying and playing with language.  This is not always the case (Frost is one obvious counterexample), but I think it holds up pretty well.  I occasionally have tried my hand at poetry and fiction writing, but nothing novel-length.  I eventually lost interest in the one novel project I did have going years ago. 

Now someone explain this: how did the blog of Bolingbroke and pessimism become filled with all this talk of online dating?  This is really killing our image as a band of hardened reactionary backwoodsmen.  In addition to which, I understand that match.com has entered into a dark pact with Dr. Phil, so automatically that would have to rule it out for all right-thinking people.  Perhaps eHarmony has some trick up their collective sleeve, to which cyrus here can testify, but I am sticking to my new conventional wisdom that the obsession with compatibility in the way that they define it is probably misguided for a lot of people.

Er, the "project development stage"?  No comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a fair point, Jeff.  You can find a few of these fiction writers scattered here and there, I will agree, but what I was aiming at here was to give an account why people on the right in this country don&#8217;t *generally* do fiction.  There is something in American culture that militates against great fiction writing, or so I would argue, and whatever that something is conservatives seem to have it in abundance.  If I had to write the post over again, I would pay more attention to the importance Kirk and Weaver gave to imagination and rhetoric.  Especially rhetoric.  Writers have to be lovers of language and craftsmen with words, and sadly because of a mix of good old American anti-intellectualism and the radical uses of literary theory many people on the right seem to have an aversion to studying and playing with language.  This is not always the case (Frost is one obvious counterexample), but I think it holds up pretty well.  I occasionally have tried my hand at poetry and fiction writing, but nothing novel-length.  I eventually lost interest in the one novel project I did have going years ago. </p>
<p>Now someone explain this: how did the blog of Bolingbroke and pessimism become filled with all this talk of online dating?  This is really killing our image as a band of hardened reactionary backwoodsmen.  In addition to which, I understand that match.com has entered into a dark pact with Dr. Phil, so automatically that would have to rule it out for all right-thinking people.  Perhaps eHarmony has some trick up their collective sleeve, to which cyrus here can testify, but I am sticking to my new conventional wisdom that the obsession with compatibility in the way that they define it is probably misguided for a lot of people.</p>
<p>Er, the &#8220;project development stage&#8221;?  No comment.
</p>
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		<title>by: daninardmore</title>
		<link>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5901</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5901</guid>
					<description>Take heart, Roach. I met my first (late) wife through a personal ad in one of those weekly city papers, and I was 47 at the time. I met my present ( and hopefully longer-lived) wife through Yahoo personals. So these things can take time, and the personals can work. I feel one great advantage in my case of waiting so long was I got it right the first time, as well as the second.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take heart, Roach. I met my first (late) wife through a personal ad in one of those weekly city papers, and I was 47 at the time. I met my present ( and hopefully longer-lived) wife through Yahoo personals. So these things can take time, and the personals can work. I feel one great advantage in my case of waiting so long was I got it right the first time, as well as the second.
</p>
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		<title>by: cyrus</title>
		<link>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5900</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5900</guid>
					<description>Get on eHarmony.  I met my wife in two months, and we were engaged a year later.  Babies are in the project development stage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Get on eHarmony.  I met my wife in two months, and we were engaged a year later.  Babies are in the project development stage.
</p>
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		<title>by: Roach</title>
		<link>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5893</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5893</guid>
					<description>Can't make everybody happy.  Jsinger008 you're probably right on family life, but it's proven somewhat elusive thus far.  Plus, I hate the mercenary spirit of match.com.  Or maybe I'm just not ready to marry . . . short-term passionate affairs have their merits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t make everybody happy.  Jsinger008 you&#8217;re probably right on family life, but it&#8217;s proven somewhat elusive thus far.  Plus, I hate the mercenary spirit of match.com.  Or maybe I&#8217;m just not ready to marry . . . short-term passionate affairs have their merits.
</p>
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		<title>by: jsinger008</title>
		<link>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5892</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5892</guid>
					<description>I don't know whether to laugh or cry at Roach's ideas.  

However, I will respectfully disagree with his analysis of our "ugly and content" age.  I think there is much beauty out there, if you know where to look, including the beauty of a family.  I command Mr. Roach to sign up at match.com immediately, look for a suitable wife, get married and start having babies!  His family will be a daily reminder of the gradeur of life as well as its beauty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know whether to laugh or cry at Roach&#8217;s ideas.  </p>
<p>However, I will respectfully disagree with his analysis of our &#8220;ugly and content&#8221; age.  I think there is much beauty out there, if you know where to look, including the beauty of a family.  I command Mr. Roach to sign up at match.com immediately, look for a suitable wife, get married and start having babies!  His family will be a daily reminder of the gradeur of life as well as its beauty.
</p>
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		<title>by: Connie</title>
		<link>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5891</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5891</guid>
					<description>Horrible Republican fiction, example A: the novel written by David Frum's wife, Amanda something @ home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Horrible Republican fiction, example A: the novel written by David Frum&#8217;s wife, Amanda something @ home.
</p>
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		<title>by: jsinger008</title>
		<link>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5890</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5890</guid>
					<description>I posted this comment over at "American Scene":

I guess the original "n + 1" article was focused on self-identified political conservatives, but much of the commentary has simply focused on novels that could be considered conservative. Which is why I can't believe no one has mentioned at least some of Philip Roth's novels. Yes, I know his political views are in many ways conventionally liberal, but not his fiction. Many of his novels exhibit what the blog "Eunomia" properly identifies as "vital to great literature", namely:

"Understanding the role of suffering in life and taking it seriously, perhaps almost too seriously"

Roth is the first American author that sprang to my mind when I read that, especially when considering his later work (e.g. "American Pastoral" or "Sabbath's Theater"). In addition, Roth's Newark is a place where tradition and family nurture civilization, even if some of his protaganists tend to rebel against its strictures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted this comment over at &#8220;American Scene&#8221;:</p>
<p>I guess the original &#8220;n + 1&#8243; article was focused on self-identified political conservatives, but much of the commentary has simply focused on novels that could be considered conservative. Which is why I can&#8217;t believe no one has mentioned at least some of Philip Roth&#8217;s novels. Yes, I know his political views are in many ways conventionally liberal, but not his fiction. Many of his novels exhibit what the blog &#8220;Eunomia&#8221; properly identifies as &#8220;vital to great literature&#8221;, namely:</p>
<p>&#8220;Understanding the role of suffering in life and taking it seriously, perhaps almost too seriously&#8221;</p>
<p>Roth is the first American author that sprang to my mind when I read that, especially when considering his later work (e.g. &#8220;American Pastoral&#8221; or &#8220;Sabbath&#8217;s Theater&#8221;). In addition, Roth&#8217;s Newark is a place where tradition and family nurture civilization, even if some of his protaganists tend to rebel against its strictures.
</p>
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		<title>by: Roach</title>
		<link>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5883</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 02:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larison.org/2007/03/12/i-am-not-misanthropic-in-my-elegiac-dismay/#comment-5883</guid>
					<description>My God, Republican literature.  Heaven forbid.

A few thoughts, though.  Our age is degraded and getting worse.  More and more Gen X and Y types are not having children and thus will live as eternal adolscents, never developing a sense of something grander than themselves, which is what children do to even the least reflective among us.  (I say this, of course, as a nearly confirmed bachelor of 31.)

Our age is so ugly and content, and ugliness and contentment do not always produce the best art.  Compare even the works of Shakespeare to a Flaubert or a Norman Mailer.  I do think Tom Wolfe deserves a hearty nod of approval, though.

That said, there are conservatives among us, and those conservatives likely are producing some literature right now that we're only dimly aware of. I am embarassed to say I can't think of too many examples.  

I do think there are some conservative novel ideas that pop into my head every so often, though, and novels like these might help us restore the culture a bit (as if most conservatives even know what they want, beyond excising the various atrocities that have propped up since the 1960s).  Here's some ideas though:

A serial killer has a genuine religious conversion with the aid of a minister.  But no one believes he's sincere. He dies on death-row heartbroken because of vile words said to him by the victim's family as his execution draws near.

A woman contracts herpes at an early age.  The novel traces the ways this modern day scarlet letter interferes with her relationships, her sense of her self, and her ability to find a decent husband.  She tries to turn to religion, but her flakiness keeps her from having any kind of serious engagement with the subject.  She continues to pursue validaton in sexual affairs, but her honesty constantly trips these things up before they come to fruition.  No wants to date a herpes-infected chick, even though she's charming and beautiful.

A yuppie couple are in a sexless marriage.  The man is afraid to go on the dating scene, so he virutally cheats on his wife with instant messaging.  He lacks the courage to go out there and really commit adultery, though, because he is afraid of rejection.  He is also afraid of rejection from his wife, so he only half-heartedly pursues sexual relations with her her. She thinks everything is more or less fine, though she is increasingly anxious that attractive men seem to find her increasingly invisible as she enters her forties.  She has a passing acquaintence with feminist ideas and thinks the idea she has a "wifely duty" is ridiculous.

An atheistic graduate student converts in short succession to Judaism, then Christianity, then Islam.  He tries to leave Islam for something else, but finds himself ostracized from his previous "new best friends" and also subject to various threats.  He is too alienated from his family (and too proud) to seek their assistance.  He is living in a group home situation where his ability easily to leave is thrwarted by his surrender of important financial information.

A recovering drug addict in recovery is increasingly put off by the "it's spirituality not religion" mantras of her NA group.  She turns to traditional religion and is torn between the ersatz spirituality of her 12 Step Program and the deeper truths she finds in a traditional Christian Church. She also is subject to a controlling relationship with her sponsor, whom she believes may be using information against her (financially and otherwise).  She pursues a new member of the group, but unintentionally drives this person into a relapse when things do not work out after an intense 3 month affair.

A 34 year old "professional musician" who has found commercial success elusive is stunned when his long term girlfriend leaves him unexpectedly citing that he's a "loser" who has never amounted to anything.  In despair, he pursues a disastrous attempt at fast wealth-making in "day trading."  He subsequently accrues massive debts and has a total mental breakdown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My God, Republican literature.  Heaven forbid.</p>
<p>A few thoughts, though.  Our age is degraded and getting worse.  More and more Gen X and Y types are not having children and thus will live as eternal adolscents, never developing a sense of something grander than themselves, which is what children do to even the least reflective among us.  (I say this, of course, as a nearly confirmed bachelor of 31.)</p>
<p>Our age is so ugly and content, and ugliness and contentment do not always produce the best art.  Compare even the works of Shakespeare to a Flaubert or a Norman Mailer.  I do think Tom Wolfe deserves a hearty nod of approval, though.</p>
<p>That said, there are conservatives among us, and those conservatives likely are producing some literature right now that we&#8217;re only dimly aware of. I am embarassed to say I can&#8217;t think of too many examples.  </p>
<p>I do think there are some conservative novel ideas that pop into my head every so often, though, and novels like these might help us restore the culture a bit (as if most conservatives even know what they want, beyond excising the various atrocities that have propped up since the 1960s).  Here&#8217;s some ideas though:</p>
<p>A serial killer has a genuine religious conversion with the aid of a minister.  But no one believes he&#8217;s sincere. He dies on death-row heartbroken because of vile words said to him by the victim&#8217;s family as his execution draws near.</p>
<p>A woman contracts herpes at an early age.  The novel traces the ways this modern day scarlet letter interferes with her relationships, her sense of her self, and her ability to find a decent husband.  She tries to turn to religion, but her flakiness keeps her from having any kind of serious engagement with the subject.  She continues to pursue validaton in sexual affairs, but her honesty constantly trips these things up before they come to fruition.  No wants to date a herpes-infected chick, even though she&#8217;s charming and beautiful.</p>
<p>A yuppie couple are in a sexless marriage.  The man is afraid to go on the dating scene, so he virutally cheats on his wife with instant messaging.  He lacks the courage to go out there and really commit adultery, though, because he is afraid of rejection.  He is also afraid of rejection from his wife, so he only half-heartedly pursues sexual relations with her her. She thinks everything is more or less fine, though she is increasingly anxious that attractive men seem to find her increasingly invisible as she enters her forties.  She has a passing acquaintence with feminist ideas and thinks the idea she has a &#8220;wifely duty&#8221; is ridiculous.</p>
<p>An atheistic graduate student converts in short succession to Judaism, then Christianity, then Islam.  He tries to leave Islam for something else, but finds himself ostracized from his previous &#8220;new best friends&#8221; and also subject to various threats.  He is too alienated from his family (and too proud) to seek their assistance.  He is living in a group home situation where his ability easily to leave is thrwarted by his surrender of important financial information.</p>
<p>A recovering drug addict in recovery is increasingly put off by the &#8220;it&#8217;s spirituality not religion&#8221; mantras of her NA group.  She turns to traditional religion and is torn between the ersatz spirituality of her 12 Step Program and the deeper truths she finds in a traditional Christian Church. She also is subject to a controlling relationship with her sponsor, whom she believes may be using information against her (financially and otherwise).  She pursues a new member of the group, but unintentionally drives this person into a relapse when things do not work out after an intense 3 month affair.</p>
<p>A 34 year old &#8220;professional musician&#8221; who has found commercial success elusive is stunned when his long term girlfriend leaves him unexpectedly citing that he&#8217;s a &#8220;loser&#8221; who has never amounted to anything.  In despair, he pursues a disastrous attempt at fast wealth-making in &#8220;day trading.&#8221;  He subsequently accrues massive debts and has a total mental breakdown.
</p>
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