As everyone probably knows by now, Norman Mailer passed away at the age of 84. TAC interviewed him in one of the magazine’s earliest issues, and he had some very smart things to say back then. Here is a sample of his remarks on politics:
The notion that man is a rational creature who arrives at reasonable solutions to knotty problems is much in doubt as far as I’m concerned. Liberalism depends all too much on having an optimistic view of human nature. But the history of the 20th century has not exactly fortified that notion. Moreover, liberalism also depends too much upon reason rather than any appreciation of mystery. If you start to talk about God with the average good liberal, he looks at you as if you are more than a little off. In that sense, since I happen to be—I hate to use the word religious, there are so many heavy dull connotations, so many pious self-seeking aspects—but I do believe there is a Creator who is active in human affairs and is endangered. I also believe there is a Devil who is equally active in our existence (and is all too often successful). So, I can hardly be a liberal. God is bad enough for them, but talk about the devil, and the liberal’s mind is blown. He is consorting with a fellow who is irrational if not insane. That is the end of real conversation.
On the other hand, conservatism has its own deep ditches, its unclimbable walls, its immutable old ideas sealed in concrete. But lately, there are two profoundly different kinds of conservatives emerging, as different in their way as the communists and the socialists were before and after 1917, yes, two types of conservatives in America now. What I call “value conservatives” because they believe in what most people think of as the standard conservative values—family, home, faith, hard work, duty, allegiance—dependable human virtues. And then there are what I call “flag conservatives,” of whom obviously the present administration would be the perfect example.
I don’t think flag conservatives give a real damn about conservative values. They use the words. They certainly use the flag. They love words like “evil.” One of Bush’s worst faults in rhetoric (to dip into that cornucopia) is to use the word “evil” as if it were a button he can touch to increase his power. When people are sick and have an IV tube put in them to feed a narcotic painkiller on demand, a few keep pressing that button. Bush uses evil as his hot button for the American public. Any man who can employ that word 15 times in five minutes is not a conservative. Not a value conservative. A flag conservative is another matter. They rely on manipulation. What they want is power. They believe in America. That they do. They believe this country is the only hope of the world and they feel that this country is becoming more and more powerful on the one hand, but on the other, is rapidly growing more dissolute. And so the only solution for it is empire, World Empire.
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November 11th, 2007 at 2:25 am
Ashish George
Unfortunately–and I’m paraphrasing Dan McCarthy here–you could probably fit all the “value conservatives” in Michigan Stadium and have seats to spare. Robinson Jeffers could have guessed as much.
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/jeffers1.html
I have to say, I’m surprised at how receptive to imperialism–the word and not just the idea–the contemporary right seems to be. It’s not just a handful of guys like Niall Ferguson and Max Boot. There seems to be a consensus among hawkish conservative intellectuals that the world was somehow a more just and moral place when the British spared the Africans, Indians, and East Asians the nuisance of governing themselves.
November 11th, 2007 at 3:16 am
solidos
Normans Value Conservative/Flag Conservative dichotomy chimes well with Altemeyers dichotomy of Righ Wing Authoritarian Followers/Right Wing Authoritarian Leaders. Both men see the peoople in the former category as honest, concerned citizens and the people in the latter as unscrupulous exploiters. Altemeyers, a psychologist, has studied this symibotic relationship for decades. His book is worth reading for its data even if one doesn’t agree with his conclusions.
November 11th, 2007 at 9:17 am
Thursday
He’s also said some crazy ass things as well. Larry Auster has a very different take on Mailer here:
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/009193.html
I’m inclined to say the bad Mailer outweighs the good.
November 11th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Grumpy Old Man
The Poms were better at it than we will ever be.
November 11th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
James Kabala
Sometimes I’m not sure paleoconservatives are really any better than neoconservatives when it comes to embracing repellent people with whom they can find small points of common ground. At least Christopher Hitchens has never stabbed anybody (that we know of).
November 11th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Daniel Larison
I know Mailer’s reputation, and I remember how jarring it was for some people I know to see Mailer on the cover of TAC as well, but if I was going to post something about him I thought I should try to find something good to say about him. “Don’t speak ill of the dead” seems like a pretty good rule, and that’s certainly true in the days immediately following someone’s passing. There will be decades for people to rehash all the reasons why they don’t like Mailer. He saw some things quite clearly, and that should also be kept in mind.
I’m not so sure that there are so few “value conservatives.” Defined that broadly, there are plenty of them even now. There are not nearly so many who translate their attachments to “family, home, faith, hard work, duty, allegiance” into a politics that actually helps to defend the things they value, and there I would agree with Dan that you could gather like-minded folks into that stadium.
A lot of these “value conservatives” have been scared into backing the “flag conservatives” because the latter can always invoke some enemy, real or imagined, and claim that it is coming to destroy all those things that the “value conservatives” cherish. So the “value conservatives” yield to schemes of the “flag conservatives,” including the very destructive ones, and believe that they have taken the right side. The division between them is not exactly like the breakdown between patriot and nationalist, because I know there are people who consider themselves nationalists who are nonetheless not “flag conservatives,” but that is a good way of understanding it. The nationalist is obviously very susceptible to schemes that promise power and “greatness” or that claim to be defending those things. Nationalism typically includes the drive for domination over other nations, which may be framed in many ways that make it sound like something other than domination (emancipation, enlightenment, etc.), so to the extent that the American right, at least since WWII, has been very nationalist it has also been entirely at home with American superpower and therefore also comfortable with American hegemony and imperialist wars. Because nationalists are interested in increasing the nation’s power, in spite of the costs this may impose on the actual people and country they profess to defend, they ultimately have no objection to imperialism, unless it can be shown that this or that particular imperialist venture damages national power overall. One of the reasons why many “‘realists” do not impress me is that they think that hegemony is perfectly fine and just needs to be managed well.
Sympathy for old European colonialism is trickier. There are the unabashed promoters of nostalgia for the “good old days” of a particularly liberal imperialism (Boot and Ferguson would fall under this heading, and perhaps even a Brownback might be included here to some extent), and then there are those who see the age of empires as the summit of Western civilisation (once again mistakenly identifying power with accomplishment) and decolonisation as a disaster for the West. There probably are some who may simply want to express admiration for Western technical accomplishments who wind up becoming apologists for the colonial empires. Indeed, as I think George Grant saw very clearly, championing modernity and supporting technological empire go hand in hand. (This is one of the reasons why traditionalists and anti-modernists find, or should find, empire undesirable, and it was one of the ways that Grant discerned a lack of conservatism in American conservatives of his time.) Attempting to assert dominance over non-human nature and then using the means of that dominance to wield power over other humans are closely related. Both entail the application of reason for the acquisition of power for the purposes of exploitation rather than stewardship and charity, which are the right relations of man to nature and his fellow man.
November 11th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Daniel Larison
I don’t know that anyone has “embraced” Mailer in his entirety or that pointing out areas of common agreement constitutes an endorsement of a person’s entire life and work. TAC had one interview with Mailer five years ago when he had something interesting to say to their readers. Neoconservatives regularly tout Hitchens and shower him with praise, and he, in turn, writes apologia for their most loathsome policies and figures. Hitchens is a would-be arch-nemesis of everyone who believes in God, and you scarcely hear a word from neoconservatives about his enthusiastic godlessness, whereas Mailer, much to the amusement of people on the left, actually believed in God and spoke about this publicly. Obviously, Mailer had his flaws, but even so the differences between the two men and between the treatment of them seem clear to me.
I have no objections to people pointing out everything that he got wrong. It seemed inappropriate to dance on the man’s grave, and so I thought I would find something else to say if I was going to say anything.
November 12th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
mkdelucas
“I have no objections to people pointing out everything that he got wrong. It seemed inappropriate to dance on the man’s grave, and so I thought I would find something else to say if I was going to say anything.”
Just so. Certainly preferable to the ways of Roger Kimball, whose typical method of remembrance is virulent character assassination.